Episode 80: Dr. Nam Tran of Dallas Direct Podiatry

Direct Podiatry with Dr. Nam Tran


What you'll learn in this episode

  • Dr. Tran's insights on the crucial role of financial stability and how it enabled him to achieve profitability within just the first month of launching his direct specialty care practice
  • Plus, much more!

Here's how to connect with Dr. Tran



Dr. Tea  0:52  

I have a fantastic guest for you today. It's Dr Nam Tran of Dallas Direct Podiatry (dallasdirectpodiatry.com) Dr Tran is a board certified foot and ankle surgeon with a deep passion for his patients. I got to talking to Dr Tran a few months back when he was just kind of curious about direct care. He was coming from an employed situation and felt it was time for him to own his business. Since then, I've been following him on Instagram, and the handle is Dallas direct podiatry (@drnamtran), and it's been phenomenal to see what he's built for himself. He started as a mobile practice, and he bootstrapped his entire practice, and now has an office space that he also built on his own with his own two hands, putting together all of the furniture to create this really intimate, high end place that is affordable for people with and without insurance. I really enjoyed this talk with him, because he talks a lot about financial stability before diving into this type of model, and that's something that I highly agree with. He is not only an intelligent and kind doctor, but he is incredibly financially savvy. 


Dr. Tea  2:04  

I almost forgot to mention that Dr Tran bootstrapped his entire practice and became profitable at just four weeks. Crazy, right? For those of you who are asking, how soon before you become profitable in your direct care practice? Well, it really depends on what your financial situation is and how savvy you are with your money, so tune into this. I know you're really going to enjoy it as much as I do. I'm really excited to have a newly minted direct care podiatrist with me today. I'm going to dig right into his brain, because he is so fresh in building his practice, we're going to talk about all the things that it takes to not just build your practice, but deep, deeper questions like why, and also design tips. Because I was just noticing the design of your brand new practice, and I'm admiring where you're sitting right now. You can't see me because this is a podcast, but it's a beautiful black background. The degrees are on the wall. I see some wood trimmings, and in contrast to my own practice, all of my degrees are somewhere in my closet, and I just kind of ramshackled Amazon, and was like, I'm just gonna pop the things on. So let's, let's just talk about everything. You ready?


Dr. Tran  3:18  

Yeah, Well, the degrees, that's probably the most expensive thing in my office. Those degrees are extremely expensive pieces of paper.

Dr. Tea  3:26  

That's right. So let's get started with your introduction. Tell us about you and what your goals were about your practice that you have right now. 


Dr. Tran  3:34  

Yeah. So the way I started out was probably typical of any you know, newly minted podiatrist, straight out of residency, I joined a general podiatry practice, and I worked there for two years as an associate. Fortunately, after that, I left that position, and I actually moved to a multi specialty group, and I was brought on to spearhead the podiatry division within that multi specialty group. So that was a great position. I had pretty good autonomy in terms of how I wanted to practice. I had pretty good autonomy in terms of how to build out the division as well as you know how to practice from a business standpoint. So that was all good, and the salary was definitely very healthy. So for all intents and purposes, I was kind of exactly what any other podiatrist, or somebody coming out of residency, or even somebody who's well into their career, that's kind of what you would aspire to have in terms of the position. But then I came into this moment where I started to extrapolate out into the future, what it would look like in terms of if I followed along this path, what would the position look,  5 to 10 years from now, and that's when I started having a crisis, because with reimbursement rates going down, and the expenses of how you know of running a business continues to go up every year, the only way to keep the lights on and to maintain the same type of revenue and compensation would to be to squeeze it out of the patients. So, and I felt that from the over looming company too, though they wanted to see more patients, the only way to see more patients is to either stay later or decrease the amount of time that you spend with the patient. 

Dr. Tran  5:38  

So if you're seeing the what I saw was, in the future, I probably have to see 40, 50, 60 patients each day in order to maintain the same revenue that we do today, and one that didn't really match well with me on a fundamental level, just because you can't offer good patient care. And that's what we're all here to do, right? We're all here to take care of patients. We're not here to squeeze, you know, two minutes of their time out and then in order to, you know, Bill the same amount of money that we did before. It just doesn't bode well for patient care. So that's when I started looking for different avenues, and that's when I came on your podcast and just started eating up all the material, eating up all the podcasts that led me down the rabbit hole of all these other providers that were either in the DPC space or the DSC space. And it took a little bit while for me to really get the courage, because it definitely is moving against the current. But after you research quite a bit, you realize that it's almost an inevitability that this is going to be the way, and it's a better way. It's a better way for the patients. It's a better way for the doctors, not so much a better way for the insurance companies. But we don't really care about the insurance companies right now. We really care about patient care.


Dr. Tea  7:12  

So, I welcome you. You came down a rabbit hole.

Dr. Tran  7:17  

It was definitely a large rabbit hole, and it was almost like an enlightenment period, right? Because you realize that, because we're so conditioned in a way that we think that there's only one way to practice medicine, there's only one path. And we're, we're basically coming out of residency all striving for the same goal, right? Everybody in regards to podiatry and Foot and Ankle Specialists, we all lust after getting out, either getting into a large podiatry group as a partner, or joining an Orthopedic Group or joining a multi specialty group, but if it falls all within this insurance model, I think the end result is all going to be the same, and that end result is just seeing as many patients as you possibly can during the day in order to keep the lights on.


Dr. Tea  8:13  

So, you know, I agree with everything you have to say, right? And I love that, because you're right. When we were trained in podiatry, did we? We are an anomaly, right? We are a very small specialty practice, but we are well integrated into the MD and DO world, but not enough for a lot of people to know. Like a lot of people don't know what a DPM is, still, to this day in 2023 they don't know we have surgical scope and all the things right and our I feel like my residency training pushed us so hard to be exactly like the MD and DO pathway just to get that recognition or respect on a reimbursement level, but also on a collegial level. And so it created kind of this very cutthroat environment where you have to do it this way in order to have this end result of parity. And I feel like we just missed the entire gap of opportunities to tell people we actually don't have to practice medicine in a hospital setting. We could have a cash practice, a concierge practice, a boutique practice for and do what we want to do. So I feel like they've kind of pushed out the smaller practices as a way of an alternate but not ever really focused about so I don't know. Do you feel like there was a deficiency in our training to understand that there's a different way to practice medicine, an alternative way,

Dr. Tran  9:40  

 100% so the residency that I trained at, it's very academic. So where I went, it was a certain pathway. If you do residency, everybody should go get a fellowship. You should go into academic medicine, into an institution, become part of your circuit, and then that's going to be your career, right? And that's what it was, almost like an unsaid pressure in that regard. It's not something that was pushed down our throats. I'm not saying that, and I love where I trained at I think that I got great training. I think that it was a great learning environment, I just think that it fosters a certain way of thinking, that this is the pathway that you want to go down, not not the way that you should, but it almost instilled, like this underlying desire to want to go down that certain pathway. I fell into a different pathway pretty early on, just because I did the research and I took part in all the scientific conferences during residency, but when it came time for the fellowship, I didn't follow the same pathway as the rest of my residence, so I was the only one that didn't go off to fellowship because I wanted to enter private practice immediately. So that was already the big turning point of me basically not following down the same path.


Dr. Tea  11:15  

So let's talk about how you got to the point where you are now. What phase are you at in your practice? How long have you been open? What's the transition period looking like for you?


Dr. Tran  11:25  

None of this would be possible if I didn't get my financial ducks in a row. You have to be stable on your personal finance side, and that's something that started all the way back in residency in terms of getting my financial, personal finances in order. Without that, I wouldn't be able to make the same moves that I did, but basically, I started the direct care practice back in January of this year, essentially. So January 31 was my last day as, like an employed physician, and February 1 was the first day of, like the direct care practice. Now I don't have an office space. I started out as a mobile, and then basically what the mobile practice model was is what it was a means of proof of concept, of getting a proof of concept. So it was almost a way of dipping my toes in, and I want to make sure that it was a viable solution, and that patients were actually willing to pay for my services out of pocket, without any problems. And what I found was it ramped up much faster than I thought it was going to be. I think that if you practice good medicine and you already have good patient relationships, one of those patients will follow you, and two patients are more than willing to pay out of pocket to have a doctor that they trust to have a doctor that they trust with their, you know, entire health. So I found that patients were not only following me, but willing to pay out of pocket. And not only that, but I was still operating, which was a surprise, because I thought that coming out of the insurance model, that my surgical volume would actually go down, it did go down a little bit. But then these patients who I already had established relationships with, they want a surgeon that they can trust, and they're willing to pay for that. So once I realized that patients were still seeing me, I was still operating, and I was cash flow positive, so I was actually generating income, and I was in the green. I realized, okay, maybe we can invest in an actual office space, and that was all within a period of four weeks. 


Dr. Tea  14:03  

That's insane. This is a beautiful story. I really love where you're taking us, because I think you're one of few people who is very keen about the financial responsibility early on in the decision to want to be in private practice early on. That's kind of a rare breed on its own. You're a rare specimen. Do you know that?


Dr. Tran  14:24  

Yeah, I think that. So what I think private practice allows us, though, is autonomy. So I think that's why it was so important to me early on, because yes, you can go into a hospital system, you can go into academic medicine, but it doesn't allow you the same autonomy from a life standpoint that private practice allows you, if you're in private practice, as well as owning your own business, you have the ability to say no to things. You have the ability to control what your schedule looks like. You have the ability to control your expenses. When you get into the direct care model and all of that, it's almost more important to me than, you know, getting an academic institution position, getting the regular paychecks from the hospital, those type of things. So I think it's just about realizing that autonomy is probably the most important part of your life, not even in your career.


Dr. Tea  15:27  

Did you have any business background before you decided to launch your practice?

Dr. Tran  15:33  

Yeah. So I come from a family of small business owners, so my mom was, I guess, a serial entrepreneur. So she had started a business, sold it, and then started another business, sold it, and then retired from there. So I did have some fundamentals growing up and seeing her run the business, seeing what it takes to run a business. So I saw a lot of her working in the business, you know, working till 9 to 10pm, every single night. We would basically, you know, cook dinner for ourselves while she worked. So I realized I got to see how a business is run, in the fundamentals and what's important to run a business, as well as some of the bad sides about running a business, which is that your business is your baby, and you got to do whatever you have to to keep your baby alive.


Dr. Tea  16:28  

Are you open to talking about what your startup costs were? Since you said you started as a mobile clinic, I imagine your overhead was very lean, and now that you've got, how did you process what you needed to start up and then become profitable in four weeks? That's incredible.

Dr. Tran  16:45  

Yeah. So obviously, mobile is really low in terms of expenses, so I have no problems delving into some of the costs. When it comes to mobile phones, You just need an EMR system, right? You need a way to track your patients. Now, this can be as cheap as getting everything, like a Google workspace account, which I think starts at like $12 for the count per month. So that's the cheapest. There are other options, like simple practice, which is $30 a month, and that's a bare bones EMR. So that aspect is much better than the other EMRs that are out there. I know that there are other EMRs out there that cost $300 a month, that cost $800 a month, but that's not necessary for direct care practice, because we don't need the billing aspect of it. So we bill on our own. We don't need anything to create this, like a super bill that we send off to insurance companies, so that offloads a lot of the costs. So EMR is one other than that. It's all the supplies that you need. So your instruments, all the wound care supplies, those type things. Everything, in total was probably around like 2500 to purchase everything that you need to go out mobile, and then the recurring costs on a monthly basis is your EMR, your malpractice insurance, those type things probably totaling, I don't know, maybe a couple 100 bucks each month. Very, very low expenses, and depending on how much you're charging, it makes it very, very easy to break even, if not be cash flow positive.


Dr. Tea  18:34  

So let's compare and contrast that, because I know we have listeners who are in training who don't really know what that looks like, because a lot of folks are asking me, how much of a loan do I need to ask for from the bank to get started in direct care for me opening a private practice, I took out a six figure loan because I thought that was what you were supposed to do. And I think a lot of us think that way, but now we're realizing that was only to accommodate insurances because of the software, the staff, the volume, just the whole philosophy, that is what makes it really expensive. But you're saying you can totally do it on the lean, get positive really fast and be really happy. So you're happy with your choice. It looks like, 


Dr. Tran  19:19  

oh, man, of course, I have more time and my wife, I realized it that before I was I was direct here, I would have really bad migraine problems, so migraines to the point where I was taking medications, where I needed to inject medications on a monthly basis in order to deal with those migraines. Ever since leaving the insurance model and going direct care, I do not take any medications for migraines at all anymore, and it just sheds a light on how much. Stress that you have in that model, because there's just so much pressure to produce, right? It doesn't give you any way to breathe, really, and the thing is, a lot of doctors, I think, don't realize how much stress that they're under. Because if you were asked back in December of last year. And if you ask me, Hey, are you stressed? Are you burned out? I would say no, because I think that there's almost like a protective layer that we have where we don't realize how stressed we actually are until that stress is relieved, and then you realize, okay, maybe there was some underlying bubbling stress that I was kind of masking and kind of like protecting myself from, but nonetheless, you were still feeling it in that moment.


Dr. Tea  20:52  

Wow, so direct care. Cure is migraines, it sounds like, no, yeah, it is a different level. It's


Dr. Tran  21:00  

Yeah, it's There's no studies on it. Yeah, this is one of those migraines that are completely cured with direct care.

Dr. Tea  21:16  

But you're right. It's the lifestyle, and I do think there's a shield we have to carry because we were so ashamed for feeling like we didn't meet up to the standard of stress, right? Like we wear stress as a badge of honor. We took a lot of call. We did all of these cases. Like, it's a really weird culture to be in to accept stress as a norm, but you saw the physical manifestations of that, and now you're seeing the treatment for that. And you're, you're, you're dealing with the way better lifestyle, right?

Dr. Tran  21:48  

Yeah, and it, you know, you have to also reframe the way that you see medicine. So yes, there is one aspect of medicine that can provide value to patients by being under stress and by seeing patients in the middle of night for that gas gangrene case, that's one way to practicing medicine. But it doesn't mean that we don't provide value. Now I feel like we provide immense value to patients by offering affordable care, providing amazing doctor patient relationships. You haven't seen this type of doctor patient relationship since like, you know, the 40s, 50s, where there were house call dots. So we're offering something that's immensely valuable to these patients, while being able to maintain our own sanity and our own health, because how am I going to help patients if I'm not healthy enough to even like not look at Bright lights because of my migraines?


Dr. Tea  22:50  

Yeah, what misconception did you have before starting your practice about direct care?


Dr. Tran  23:01  

So I think the biggest one is the demographics that we serve. So it's easy to write off, and I would say that it's probably the number one thing that I hear from people who aren't in the direct care space is that, oh, you only serve the rich. You only service the wealthy, and people are well off. I think that that can't be further from the truth, and that's one thing that I realized right from the beginning of starting the direct care practice, that actually the majority of my patients early on were not well off. There were actually patients who were uninsured and didn't have the means of paying these obscene costs that are associated with providers that are under the insurance model. I had a patient who was uninsured, who had an ankle fracture, and in order to step into the facility alone, it would have been 12,000 just for the facility fee. Now as a direct care provider, I'm able to shop around, look for different facilities that are cash, pay friendly, and we were able to get that facility down from 12,000 to 2500 and that's including anesthesia. Facility fee, anesthesia and then my surgeon fee, the patient had to pay a fraction of what he had to pay. You know, otherwise in an insurance model, so that is directly serving the underserved, right? That is our opposite of the rich as you could possibly get. And I think that's a big misconception when people think of direct care, that we are some bougie doctors only serving bougie people. And I would say that part of my demographic, I still, I do see, you know, affluent people. But I would say. That in terms of the percentage, is like a 50-50, split between people who are, you know, who are underserved, and 50% people who are actually affluent. I love that. 


Dr. Tea  25:11  

I love that you say that because I am pretty bougie myself and proud and bougie, right? But I want to be accessible. That is, that is a skill set that we have as a direct care doctor to be available to anybody who wants to pay, who values that right? There's no problem with being bougie. I'm all about it, but also I don't serve the same thing. I have uninsured. I love taking care of them. And then I have people who are business owners like you and I, who don't want to pay that insurance. We still need to work and be on our feet, so we serve those people. And then I want to know, do you have a niche of things where insurance doesn't even cover it anyway, so it doesn't make sense to have insurance for some of your services. What do you do? 


Dr. Tran  25:55  

Yeah. So a lot of the patients that I see the model are trying to avoid surgeries as much as possible. So we find any means in regards to treating them conservatively or non invasively or minimally invasively. So in my practice, we will be doing shockwave therapy as well as laser therapy, in terms of offering them treatments that are not traditionally covered by insurance, that can help them avoid them or if that is possible. And then the next step, after a non invasive approach, is going to be a male invasive approach. So we try to find ways of lessening the incision so that we don't have to make these long incisions that have all sorts of wound healing complications and scar tissue complications. And then, if that's not an option, then the very last thing that we have is actual traditional, open approaches where we're making long incisions. So that's the stepwise approach, and that's how I treat my patients. And the reason why I do that is that's how I would want to be treated. I wouldn't want to go into a doctor's office and immediately they say, Hey, you're going to, indeed, a long incision in order to make this surgery happen, and you're going to have to go through six months to a year worth of rehabilitation for that, you know, all that scar tissue, I would want somebody to give me non invasive, middle invasive options before we enter into that.


Dr. Tea  27:26  

What does your marketing strategy look like right now?

Dr. Tran  27:31  

Right now is basically hitting the road. So I think that, I think that the most powerful early on is going to be word of mouth and direct marketing to your referral sources. I think social media, Google, SEO, are all great, but those do take time. So in the previous practice, we worked with a formal marketing agency, and even with them, they said any SEO changes that you make is going to take six months to a year to really see the results of that SEO change, and that that means changing anything on your website, because it takes a while for Google to crawl your website and realize that, okay, this is where I'm going to send patients to, because this is a leading authority in terms of the active web page. If you're a new practice, you can't really wait around six months to a year for Google to hit and for you to show up on the first page of Google. So the best thing that you can do is just hitting the road talking to providers that share the same ideals as you, and then letting them know that you're in the community and willing to help, as well as surprising, a lot of patients have been coming to me by just random conversations, so I always have a business card on me, so you never know who you're going to talk to. You tell them what you do. You have to, you have to shout it from the top of the mountain, saying, Hey, I am a podiatrist. I am a foot and ankle surgeon. And then he will always say, Oh, I have this foot problem. And then that's when you engage in a conversation with them, and then you give them a card, and that's how you can also get patients.


Dr. Tea  29:26  

Do you have a 30 Second Elevator Speech for those conversations?

Dr. Tran  29:33  

Yeah, so I think that everybody needs to get a 30 Second Elevator Speech. And basically mine is, I am changing the way patients see doctor's visits. I tell them that I provide unmatched Foot and Ankle care that rids ourselves of all the restrictions that insurance companies put on patient treatments. I offer one hour consultations to evaluate every aspect of the patient. Problem, and then we work together to formulate a treatment plan that works best for the patient and their lifestyle


Dr. Tea  30:07  

That's beautiful. So you've been practicing real well. No wonder you're profitable in four weeks. You did all the right things. So for the people listening, what kind of resources would you recommend them seeking, if they were just curious, or if they were even on the fence about direct care.


Dr. Tran  30:24  

So I think it's always good to get mentors, because this is relatively uncharted territory, so there's only a handful of people that really have significance to that experience. So the first thing that I did was I consumed every podcast that you ever put out. So that's, I think, a great starting point. So those have been super helpful, just in regards to understanding what direct care is, how to enter into direct care, and then what to do in the future. So that has been immensely helpful. And then after that, I started reaching out to actual direct care doctors that were practicing, and then getting a little mentorship from them has been really helpful. Other than that, other resources I know I touched upon just make sure that you have the financial resources in order to float yourself in the very beginning, and that means getting your personal finances in order. So there are a ton of resources out there in terms of how to get your personal finances in order to prepare


 Dr. Tea  31:42  

Before we got onto the call, I was complimenting your wall and your design, like you show Instagram your process of building your practice. And I think that is the most fascinating part about what we do, is that we get to show people the behind the scenes of what it really takes to have a successful practice. So what is your inspiration for the design of what you have right now?

Dr. Tran  32:07  

So I wanted patients to come in and feel like they had a welcoming environment where they were getting an elevated level of care. So I didn't want patients coming in feeling like it was just going to be any other doctor's office. I wanted them to immediately come in and feel like they were in something different, because they're getting something different. They're getting treatment that is different. So I made sure that when they came in, everything was beautiful, okay, and that they had all the amenities that they could ever possibly have. So in the waiting room, they have artwork to look at, they have coffee Nespresso, they have water balls for them. And then when they come into the actual examination room, again, there's an environment in here that oozes something different and at a higher level. So in terms of actual inspiration, I don't know if I'm naturally a decorative person or good at Interior Design, it was mainly going online, finding pictures of things that I liked, and then trying to copy that via finding the same furniture on Wayfair and IKEA. And that's another thing to do when you're building out the practice. Always think about things that are either revenue generating or non revenue generating all these, all these decorative items, they are non revenue generating expenses. You're not going to get a real ROI so don't go out and don't go buying furniture from West Elm or Crate and Barrel and those type of thing, because spending $1,000 on a desk is a non revenue generating asset you can get by with just going on Wayfair or going to IKEA and getting your your decorative items that way, and it can still end up looking beautiful, as you can see in my office. 


Dr. Tea  34:19  

Yeah, it's gorgeous. I mean, you guys are listening to this, you don't see it, but you have to take a visit on his Instagram and see all the hard work, the thought process that it took to even build that, because you did most of this yourself, right? Putting furniture together. And 


Dr. Tran  34:37  

yeah, one of the things from Wayfair and IKEA, it all comes in like 5 million pieces that you have to somehow. So I hate putting together furniture, but it has to be done. And then you can paint easily yourself. You can hang things up easily yourself. So it just takes a little bit of creativity and hard work.


Dr. Tea  34:57  

Do you have staff? Do you plan on it? Having staff if you don't. 


Dr. Tran  35:01  

So right now, I don't have staff, so I pick up the phone, I talk to the patient directly, and I think it builds really good rapport. I do have my wife. My wife helps me, so she is out in the front. She greets patients as they come in, so that helps in regards to if I'm in the patient with the room, then at least there's somebody out there to greet the patient. But as we go along and as we become even more casual positive than we can bring on a front desk person to greet the patients,


Dr. Tea  35:40  

what skills do you think a doctor needs to have in order to have a successful direct care practice,


Dr. Tran  35:48  

personal finance skills. Because I know I harp on personal finance skills a lot, but I think that personal finance skills in your own life do translate into business very, very well, because as long as you're cognizant of your expenses and you can control your expenses, it makes for a very durable business model. You want to keep the expenses low in order to survive through anything, and with the way that you know the economy is looking, you don't know what's down the pipeline. So in the event that we do hit a major recession, you want a durable business model and your expenses as low as possible in order to weather through those type of changes.


Dr. Tea  36:40  

That's really good, because my personal finances are a little questionable. I'm expensive. I talk about this a lot, but I'm a very small person, so I appreciate that advice, actually.


Dr. Tran  36:52  

Yeah, well, once you get to a certain point, you can definitely loosen up the purse strings a little bit, but if you're just starting a new business and a new practice, you probably should tighten it up a little bit.

Dr. Tea  37:05  

It's funny you say that because, you know, my husband and I were, we're first generation Vietnamese-American, and so money is always a thing in the family. We always talk about budgeting, and even though we make a good amount of money, we're still like it matters what we spend on, and I think that does transfer over into our personal life and our business life. So it was a good skill to be frugal in the beginning, and at some point, like you said, loosen up the purse string, right? Enjoy life a little bit when you're secure enough to do so, 


Dr. Tran  37:37  

yeah, I was guilty like early on in my marriage with my wife, I was very frugal, and then she was not on the same level of frugality as I was, but then we realized that my frugality was leaving leading to almost like deprivation, right? So you have to find that natural balance between being frugal and not completely depriving yourself of all the joys of life, because we only have one life, and it's very, very short, and you don't want to live it just to save a bunch of money, to have a bunch of money the bank account with no memories. So it's best to, you know, spend your money wisely, but still splurge a little bit on the things that will carry on into later in life, things that are important, like experiences with loved ones, so going on trips. Those things won't die. Those things will stick with you for a while.


Dr. Tea  38:38  

That's a good one. You can't take money to the grave, is what I'm hearing.


Dr. Tran  38:45  

You can't, but you also can't, you can't live. You can't eat without money.


Dr. Tea  38:51  

Yeah, thank you so much for talking to me about your intimate experiences of direct care and giving us the behind the scenes of what it takes to make it work. Where can people find you if they want to connect with you? Connect with you? 


Dr. Tran  39:04  

I think the easiest way would be on my Instagram account, so you can always find me on Instagram and then shoot me a direct message.


Dr. Tea  39:14  

Awesome. Any last words to the folks listening.


Dr. Tran  39:16  

I don't regret anything I've done. If you're on the fence about it, I think it's a great move, and it will enable you to continue to practice medicine and be the type of doctor you always want to be for the foreseeable future, and enable you to have a long and healthy career. 


Dr. Tea  39:36  

I'm so happy you're here with me. Thank you so much for your wise words and to everyone that's listening. Thanks for listening. I'll see you in the next episode. Take care.